The Oxygen Mask Rule For Grown Ups

The Hidden Cost Of Caregiving

0:21 SPEAKER_00: Hi, how do you protect a life of your own when caregiver may continue for an unknown length of time? What's great is that I've got Janice as my guest today and this conversation stays firmly in real life. Parents who may not want to discuss their siblings, who may never become helpful, employers who may or may not match the caring slogans that are on the wall. Doesn't matter, let's get started. Hi and welcome to Work Stress Anxiety. I'm Cheryl Parris, your host. I am very fortunate today to have a guest with me who is going to be able to share so much with you.

1:09 SPEAKER_00: Welcome, Janice.

1:11 SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Cheryl. Happy to be here.

1:13 SPEAKER_00: Now, one of the things I talk about a lot on the podcast and also when I'm working with clients is boundaries. And to me, a boundary can sound very sensible. It can feel quite brutal sometimes, especially when you're standing in front of someone.

Boundaries That Keep You Going

1:33 SPEAKER_00: But um what do you think makes a boundary useful in real life when you're having to juggle so many different things? You're juggling work, you're juggling being a parent, you're juggling, you know, looking after maybe someone, you know, an older parent, maybe a disabled child, even. What makes a boundary useful in real life rather than just some impressive thing on a bit of paper?

2:02 SPEAKER_01: So it's vital to have boundaries because, as you said, there's so many competing things that are coming at you. And you have to be able to take care of you. You know, especially if you're a caregiver. Caregivers have to care for themselves first. I use this analogy, and I think it's the best thing, is like, think about that situation when you're on an airplane, the oxygen drops down, and you are told, put the oxygen on yourself first. Because if you aren't breathing, you're not helping the guy beside you.

2:35 SPEAKER_01: And hopefully they put on their own oxygen. But if they don't, at least you have yours on, you can help them, and you know you're going to, you know, survive. And I really believe that model is that you have to make sure that you have your own needs met. And the truth is, as a caregiver, sometimes your needs are not met. Sometimes your parent is up all night and you don't sleep. Sometimes you're so busy that you don't get to eat. Sometimes you're so worn out from work when you come home. The last thing you want to do is deal with your parent.

3:12 SPEAKER_01: And you know you have to. But again, it's you have to figure out in your situation how am I going to regenerate myself? How do I recharge? How do I use the word no at times? Because sometimes that's your only boundary, is to say, no, I can't. I just can't. And it's tough because we are not brought up that way. We're not brought up to look, you know, as people would say, selfish, but there's a different spin on it if you look at instead of selfish, look at self-centered. And self-centered doesn't mean it's all about me.

3:51 SPEAKER_01: It just means I'm centered in myself. It means I have to make sure I'm cared for so that I can care for you. Whatever that means, you know, you hope that you can get enough sleep and eat and exercise and have social life. Sometimes you don't, but you can still set boundaries given the situation to take as much care of you as you possibly can in the moment.

Starting Hard Talks Gently

4:19 SPEAKER_00: You know, it's really interesting because with some of the work that I've done previously, working with vulnerable adults, and you know, sometimes people you know that sometimes people can lose capacity, you know, they can have an accident and lose capacity. And we're always told, oh yeah, you make sure you have these conversations early on. You know, you're you may have an elderly parent who start, you know, they're starting to lose their, they're starting to become more cognitively impaired. Yeah.

4:50 SPEAKER_00: And again, you're told, oh yeah, have these conversations early. But I know what I'm like. I am the type of person who likes sorting things out early. I like planning way in advance of things because I know that if I've planned, even if I've just done it in my head, that I'll I go through all these different scenarios in my head. And it's like when it happens, because I've gone through all those different scenarios, I'm sort of, you know, I'm good. Right. But I know that sometimes that annoys people because some other people think, but there isn't actually a problem yet.

5:29 SPEAKER_00: So, you know, why are we even talking? Why are we even talking about this? So I'm just curious, Janice, what you think? How do you begin without sounding as though you're trying to take over that elderly parent's life? How do you do it?

5:47 SPEAKER_01: You have to ask what they want. What would you want? What would be good for you? Let it come from them on their side. You know, a trick that I use is you you talk to your parents and you go, you know, I have a friend of mine, and their parents are struggling with driving. We'll use that as a, you know, they're concerned that their dad's not driving like he used to. He's driving slower, a little bit more over the center of the road, not knowing where he is. And they're concerned, what do you think the best way to address that kind of problem would be?

6:22 SPEAKER_01: And then you listen because there isn't no a friend, right? If you ask your parents for advice about things, you're going to get some really great information. And when you do it when they're healthy, then that's great because then it becomes part of normal conversation. You know, you say to them, you know, I was thinking about a will. Do you have a will? And if I don't have one, what do you think the best way to get it is? Oh, you have one? Oh, where is it? I'd love to, you know, I'd love to know where that is, just to know, you know, where you keep your stuff.

6:57 SPEAKER_01: Oh, you do you have a safety deposit box? I was thinking about that. And again, these are little innocent pieces of information that you're gathering without it sitting, okay, we're sitting down and we're having the conversation in the family around the table, and here we go. It can be informal. It can be in a way that you're gathering little bits and pieces so that when something does happen, you've got that all filed in your brain. Oh, okay, we've had this talk. I know. And yeah, you know what?

7:31 SPEAKER_01: Some people may think, oh, you're you're catastrophizing, you're making this, you know, that nothing has happened yet. Why are you worried about this, this, or this? And that's just the way some people are. I mean, we're all different. Some people don't plan at all, and they just fly by the seat of their pants, and that's just their personality. So I wouldn't worry so much about that part of it. But it allows you to feel prepared. It allows you to feel like if something happens, I'm gonna I can handle it.

8:01 SPEAKER_01: So it gives you peace of mind, and that's what's important, is what gives you peace of mind. If what gives you peace of mind is to fly by the seat of your pants, then do that. It's not for me to tell you what you should or shouldn't do. Everybody is different. And again, that's your boundary. Your boundary is now, I want to be prepared. I want to know. That's what works for me. Now, it's hard when you have a sibling who is on the other side of the scale and you're trying to have a conversation about your parents, and they're like, oh no, it's fine.

8:34 SPEAKER_01: When the time comes, we'll figure it out. It just tells you where you're at and you do what works for you. And when something happens and your sibling is unprepared, and you go, it's okay, I've got this. I've already thought about these things. This is what we can do together. Here's what I need you to do. You give them something to do. And again, don't let them off the hook in that you're the one that's now prepared and you feel you have to do everything. Again, that's preparing your boundary to say, I'm gonna do what I am capable of, but I'm gonna ask for help.

9:06 SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna bring in other people who might make this easier for me to deal with. So, you know, build that little fence around yourself when you need to do that.

When Siblings Do Not Step Up

9:15 SPEAKER_00: It's interesting you mentioned siblings. I've got two brothers. I'm the oldest of three, and my brothers are, I'm very fortunate, they're ace people, right? And I have no doubt both my parents are in their 70s now. They're both still very active. I'm very fortunate, they're both still very active. In fact, they have probably better social lives than I have, if I'm honest. Yeah. Um, but I know there's gonna come a time when they're gonna be less active. And even though they haven't explicitly said what they would like to happen, the three of us, me and my siblings, have an idea.

9:57 SPEAKER_00: They they all live in London. I don't live in London anymore. I'm about 60 miles away. Right. I'm the only girl, and obviously, traditionally, girls kind of, yeah.

10:09 SPEAKER_01: It does make a difference. Yeah, yeah.

10:11 SPEAKER_00: Yeah. So, but we kind of know what we'll what we'll do. Regards to myself, I've already told my daughter what she needs to do. When it is I've only got what the the one daughter, and I've already told her, you know, if I start, if there's sort of cognitive decline, you need to do this. But when I die, I want a cardboard box, I don't want anybody spending loads of money on a funeral for me. You know, if I find out that I'm ill and I'm gonna, you know, pass away, I'm gonna have the wake before I die.

10:45 SPEAKER_00: So my daughter, I'm laughing about it, but we've had that conversation and she knows I'm deadly serious when I say these things because I've said them to her enough times.

10:55 SPEAKER_01: Yes.

10:56 SPEAKER_00: But she's on her own, she's on her own, and luckily I've made it clear what I want as I get older and less able. But I know there are lots of people who have siblings, right? And who will not share the load, even if they're like five minutes round the corner.

11:15 SPEAKER_01: Yes.

11:16 SPEAKER_00: They have siblings who criticize them, they have siblings who are silent, they have siblings who, you know, who just completely avoid to do with sharing the load. And I'm just I've always thought about that as personally very unfair. Well, so I I'll But I don't want to judge people because I know that it's not always as simple as that. Janice, how can someone move from that um feeling of waiting for fairness to happen?

11:50 SPEAKER_01: There's no fairness. I'm gonna just tell you that. There is no fairness. It doesn't, it doesn't happen. I know of a couple of families where one where there's three sons, and actually I know two families where there's three sons, it's the same thing has happened. There's one son who took on the lion's share of caring for the parents. The other two sons have lots to say. They don't always like what that son is doing, and that son that's doing it all feels like I'm doing it all. I've got two brothers.

12:26 SPEAKER_01: Why am I the one that's doing everything? And I will tell you from experience too, that some people just don't have it in them for whatever reason to care. They can't see their parent ill, it's too much, it it they don't know how to deal with it. It's their own internal struggle that they have. And you can't judge or fault them for that. So that's why having lots of other support, the support doesn't have to be from your sibling, the support can be from your cousins, the support can be from your friends, the support can be from your faith community, the support could be from a company that you call up and say, I need somebody to drive my dad to his doctor's appointment while I'm at work, if that's what it takes.

13:16 SPEAKER_01: So again, you know, we're talking about boundaries here. We can't, we can't get through somebody else's boundary. And if their boundary is, I can't deal with this, really, not as not as just, oh, I don't want to. It just happens too. But there are people who really, for whatever reason, they just can't do it. And so, all right, that's the reality. Let's figure something else out so that the person who is involved feels like they still have support, no matter who it is, doesn't matter who it is.

What To Tell Your Employer

13:49 SPEAKER_00: Okay. Now, I know the demographics, especially in the Western world, is changing. People are living longer, we're living with more long-term chronic conditions. But and um even I'm laughing because I was the other day I was trying to work out how many days I have until I can officially retire. And me and my friend were laughing about it. But lots of people are still having to work past retirement age for various reasons. You know me, I don't like to fluff, but there are lots of employers who have these lovely banners that say, you know, we are, I don't know, this type of employer, and you know, we we support, we understand that you have caring roles outside, you know, blah blah blah.

14:41 SPEAKER_00: And sometimes disclosing to your employer can be very useful and they can be very supportive, but sometimes it can also mean there's an almost like a change in how your competency is perceived. For sure. So how can a person do you think, for what it is they need, without having to justify or literally hand over their whole family history as evidence of what they need?

15:19 SPEAKER_01: Programs do we have? Don't disclose anything. What kind of programs do we have? Just curious. As a company, what do we provide in these kinds of situations? Look around you in the company and see. I'm sure there are people who have had some challenges. How were they dealt with? Were they dealt with positively? Because if they were, then that makes it a lot easier for you in your situation to bring up your challenges. If you have found that there isn't a lot of support, no matter what the banner says, then you have a choice.

15:52 SPEAKER_01: Your choice is is this a company that I want to stay with? Because this is gonna be my reality, you know, this is what I'm gonna have happen. Or do I need to find outside resources to help me? Or is there an employee assistance program so that even if it's not my actual company, I've got somewhere to go. I've got support systems, not inside the company, but outside, that at least I know I can get some help. I think if it's something that's going to really affect your performance, you have to disclose something.

16:30 SPEAKER_01: Because what you don't want is your company saying, Oh, look at Janice. She's not focusing, she's sloughing off, she's not doing her job without having any background or context, you don't want that either. Because then when it becomes performance review time, you can get into trouble that way. But I think what you said earlier, for some companies, they take that knowledge and they go, oh, she's having problems with her family, you know, balancing. And we have a promotion over here, but I'm not gonna offer it because I don't think she's gonna be able to handle that promotion.

17:12 SPEAKER_01: Even though nine times out of ten, caregiving, unfortunately, the way that I'm gonna say this, it's not something that lasts forever. It's a temporary thing that you're doing. And when that caregiving is done, that part of your brain is now not on that. It's on grieving, it's on other things, you know, as well. But caregiving generally tends to be temporary, unfortunately, you know, unless it is a very long protracted disease that, or you have one parent gets ill and then the other parent gets ill later on down the road, which happens a lot.

17:52 SPEAKER_01: So it it's a challenge. It's a challenge to figure out what do I tell my employer, what do I not tell them. I think you really have to look at the company that you're working for, and you determine how much am I comfortable telling, how much help am I going to get? And if I don't get it at work, where can I get it?

18:13 SPEAKER_00: Now it's interesting you what you said about length of time, because I'm just wondering if you're caring and it and it's going to remain part of your life for an unknown length of time, how does a person protect something that belongs only to them?

Keeping Your Identity Long Term

18:33 SPEAKER_00: Not because it makes them a better carer, but because they're still a human being with a life.

18:39 SPEAKER_01: Right. So it is a challenge. I mean, when somebody knows that this caregiving is going to go on and on and on, that's where the self-care really has to come into the situation, where you have to be able to say, and this is, you know, this is going to be a long-term situation. I have to function as a human being. I have family over here, I have friends, I have interests, hobbies. How am I going to balance all of this? And sometimes it's a challenge. And sometimes there are periods where the balance is not tipping the way you would like.

19:17 SPEAKER_01: It's just not. And you have to make a choice and say, okay, how am I going to frame this so that I can get through this situation without feeling, you know, totally overwhelmed and burdened. And we're not told how to ask for help very well. We think we got to do this ourselves. And I think that's one of the biggest fallacies is that we think we have to do all of this ourselves. We don't have to ask for help. Asking for help is weakness, but it's not. It's really a strength. It's saying, I need a break for me.

19:54 SPEAKER_01: I want to be able to spend time with my family. I want to do a great job at work. I want to have memories that I build for my own life and my own self. And it's hard. There's there's no there's no one answer. Your situation is your situation. And you can see the moving parts better than anybody else. But sometimes you need somebody from outside who's watching this go on and saying, you know, if you had this or that support, it would make it easier for you. You may not even be aware that there's other things that can make it easier for you.

20:31 SPEAKER_01: Because you don't see it. You've got your blinders on. This is how I got to do it.

20:35 SPEAKER_00: Before we go, Janice, what I would like to ask is if there's anyone listening right now who feels as though they're losing themselves, they're losing their sense of identity because of all the r the not only just the care responsibilities that they have, but they're beginning to feel as if there's just too much going on for them. They still have to work, they still need to maintain themselves. What would be your one? I don't like the word advice, because to me advice is it comes from our own experience.

21:13 SPEAKER_00: Yeah. So but what would be your one suggestion, or even more than one suggestion, of something they they can do in the next sort of 20 to 48 hours that would help them maybe feel a bit more themselves?

Small Steps In The Next 48 Hours

21:29 SPEAKER_01: Well, there's there's a few things that I might suggest, depending on how far down the road you are, really. There are on social media a number of people who have been posting their realities of caregiving. And I think sometimes, as terrible as this sounds, it's the truth, you know, misery loves company. So sometimes knowing you're not the only one going through it is very helpful. Finding a support group. If your parent has Alzheimer's or heart attack or stroke, there's so many support groups out there, you know, and that can be very helpful because those people may be able to come up with strategies that you don't know about.

22:14 SPEAKER_01: You know, another thing is making an appointment with your own healthcare professional and saying, I don't know how far down the road I am, but I want to talk to somebody and let them know this is affecting my life in this and this and this way. Do you have some help for me? Whether it's counseling, whether it's, you know, if you need medication or sometimes you do, you know, this is reality and it's and there's nothing, you know, shameful or embarrassing to say, I need help. Sometimes it's just saying, you know what, tonight I am going to a movie and I'm gonna find something funny, or I'm gonna find a stupid thing on TV and I'm gonna watch it so that I can just get out of this reality and put myself in some kind of crazy other reality for a couple of hours and just laugh or breathe or whatever that is.

23:12 SPEAKER_01: You know, sometimes it's as simple as getting up and going for a walk and saying, you know what, I I need to get out of the environment. I know for me, I've taken long walks and I solve all the problems of the world, and then I come home and I forget everything I thought about. But while I'm walking, everything makes sense. Everything, or sometimes, sometimes things really do fall into place. Sometimes you're talking to yourself and you think, oh wow, I didn't think about that before. There's something.

23:41 SPEAKER_01: And if I come to those moments, I literally I'll go on my phone and my phone has a note thing, and I'll go, okay, remember this, remember this, or you see a sign, or you see something inspirational, or you don't know, or somebody's nice to you and says, Hey, how's your day going? And you're like, Oh, I needed that so badly.

24:02 SPEAKER_00: So it could be very simple things.

24:04 SPEAKER_01: Cool.

24:04 SPEAKER_00: Do you know something, Janice? This has been so insightful for me, and I really want to thank you for joining me and talking about how it's so important that we take care of ourselves. Like you said, oxygen on first. Yeah. So I just want to thank you so much, Janice, for joining me. Thank you, Janice. Thanks, Cheryl. Thanks so much.

Key Takeaways And Goodbye

24:27 SPEAKER_00: You know, your small step today could be one informal question, you know, asking an aging parent what they would want in a situation involving driving health or important paperwork. The thing is, I think it doesn't always require a real family summit around the kitchen table. These small, repeatable conversations are often more useful than trying to settle everything at once. So I really want to thank Janice. Remember her relevant links and resources are waiting for you in the show notes. Bye for now!